Readers,
I don’t think it’s unusual that we have feelings of like, dislike, compassion, or revulsion – even for folks we’ve never met before. Especially for celebrities and the like, we somehow come to ‘know’ them through their ever-less-private lives and exploits.
Case in point: Amanda Bynes. While I never watched any of the Disney stuff she did, and really have no idea what the span (typed spank here, out of habit, and had to erase the ‘k’) of her career has been. I only know that, for the last year or so, this young woman’s life has spiraled dangerously out of control, and that the media have been there to document every single episode in excruciating detail.
Now this girl is reportedly being held in a psychiatric facility, undergoing tests to find out what kind of ‘crazy’ she is – whether she’s acting crazy, or really is mentally or emotionally disturbed. Of course, my view is of the ‘Genetics loads the gun and Environment pulls the trigger’ mentality; obviously something going on there, and lifestyle must be a factor, but who’s to blame? (South Park would remind us here that we are supposed to ‘Blame Canada’, but I think we can only hold them responsible for Justin Bieber. More on him in a minute.)
Is it the fame? The lack of accountability to oneself and others? Is it the constant public scrutiny?
Is it possible to spank sense into someone who’s behaving this way? (Not if she’s suffering from an actual chemical imbalance, but if this is behavioral dysfunction.) And I’m not talking about that funny way in which we spankos always talk about spanking the politicians, or Osama bin Laden. I’m talking about actual applied discipline, accountability, and all the trimmings. Could it work for someone who’s not hardwired to be a spanko?
Miss Bynes isn’t the first, or the hundredth, to have these sorts of problems, ad certainly isn’t even the most infamous. (Think Lyndsay Lohan, Britney Spears, etc.) For me, it’s always hard to see the news articles and trash pieces, making these people out to look like a bunch of loonies – hell, I’d be a loony too if a bunch of strange guys with cameras followed me into Starbucks every morning, too.
I guess my question is: how effective could spanking and discipline be for someone without prior motivation? Does one have to be a spanking fetishist to benefit from the basic ideals of spanking as discipline? Adult corporal punishment is still practiced in many countries, although the rituals are usually severe and dangerous, as a means to correct or punish perceived negative behaviors. Although I don’t advocate these practices, I think that there may be something to be said for spanking some sense into someone along with a nice longwinded lecture, regardless of their orientation. Or am I straddling the line of non-consent with the idea that non-spankos be subjected to our process?
Also in the news lately: Anthony Weiner. You remember this guy as the Congressman (Senator?) who infamously sexted photos of his…ahem…to at least one woman and was (duh) caught, er, red-handed.
Even after his humiliating public admission and stepping-down, apparently Anthony just could not contain himself. He went right back online and got himself in another tub of hot water when, according to news reports, he was caught having naughty online chats with a woman in her twenties.
Sigh. Here again, a case for dragging someone over one’s lap and smacking them ’til the cows come home. And then some. What the hell, honestly, could a person be thinking? (And herein lies the paradox: He WAS NOT thinking. There was nothing there, in his improperly functioning mind – no trigger – to make him stop and think before pressing ‘send’, yet again. Would a weekly accountability report and sound disciplinary spanking give this man some price to think about, before whipping his junk out again on Chat Roulette or something? And P.S. he’s running for mayor of New York City. (Marion Barry, anyone?..)
Speaking of inexplicable behaviors, I give you the poster boy for needing a country butt whoopin’ :
His Highness Justin Bieber
I should preclude this by saying that, until recently, I had never heard any of this young man’s music. Now that I have, well, let’s just say that I have. He’s cute and will probably have a much lovelier singing voice as soon as those berries fully drop.
Youth and (purported) talent are not excuses for the kind of (fine, I’ll say it) punkass, disrespectful crap this one seems to be getting away with. All the money in the world doesn’t buy class, and this fella is out to prove that the starlets of Hollywood do not corner the market on Diva. He urinated in a mop bucket! In a New York City restaurant’s kitchen! In full view of the kitchen staff, forgodssakes…and nobody did a thing to stop him. Having spent several years working in and managing restaurants in my twenties I can tell you, without a doubt, that I would’ve grabbed that boy and shook him ’til the diamonds dropped off his Rolex.
I can also tell you, unequivocally, that Mr. Bieber would benefit from a co
To put it bluntly, I think, YES. If our judicial system adopted or reinstated Corporal punishment as alternatives to jail time spanking could be a MOST effective deterrent for non spankos because even for spankos it really DOES hurt like hell at some point during a shoot or session.
As for that ass Justin Boober, he annoys the f@!! out of me. I read that when he guest starred on CSI a few years ago, he gave the crew a hard time. For no good reason, he punched a cake sitting at one of the craft tables…AND he locked a crew member in a closet. I personally don’t find him physically appealing, nor vocally either.
The really disturbing latest Amanda Bynes update is she “accidently” poured gasoline on one of her pets. This broad needs INTENSE (non spanking)therapy ASAP!
Hey, wha’ happened? You got cut off. I wanted to see what you’d do to Justin Bieber. I can’t stand that little twerp. And I don’t think he’s talented, either.
I honestly don’t know what I think of non-consensual corporal punishment for non-fetishists. Is it REALLY a deterrent? It hurts for a while, but unless you beat someone to the point of broken skin and other damage, they forget about the pain once it’s over. It punishes the crime, but does it really change the behavior? Mind you, it’s a fun fantasy for us kinkos. I’ve certainly imagined Ann Coulter being tied down and walloped until that ever-present smirk is wiped off her face. But in reality, would it change who she is? Doubt it.
Anthony Weiner, the Peter Tweeter (thank you, Jay Leno, for that), has an addiction, I think. He is seriously disturbed and in denial. But yeah, I suppose if you locked his junk in a cage, he wouldn’t be so eager to show it off. As for Lindsay Lohan, good lord, I have no idea what she needs. That poor child is a lost cause.
I am not sure it would work very well. It apparently didn’t for Michael Fey. I think maybe it might for some, but for most it wouldn’t change anything. I know it is an argument that has gone around for some time and there are those who want to bring corporal punishment back in the legal system. The problem with that is the potential for abuse and it would happen. It already does even without having corporal punishment being legal.
I imagine this argument about the supposed values of corporal punishment will go on for some time. We can discuss the pros and cons up to ying/yang and not come up with a viable solution. On the surface, it seems it would work, though my guess is it would cause many to just be more angry than before and thus be basically useless.
Let’s look at what exactly drives our behavior..…our VALUE system. In the above mentioned examples their value systems clearly need adjusting! Unfortunately, our value system is already in place at a very young age. (at least the ones that keep us accountable for living inside acceptable realms of “social order”).
In the case of Justin Bieber, he defies any sort of “social contract” that we, as a society, have in place. Rules do not apply to him. He doesn’t seem to suffer from an addiction like the others that were mentioned. He is just a punkass that needs to be spanked over and over again and held accountable on a regular basis. Plain and simple.
In my opinion, each one of these examples are completely different and are excellent examples of behavioral archetypes that can be found in a person that is living in a reactionary existence. But first, I think one needs to separate the “person” from the “behavior”. None of these people seem to be the “devils spawn”, however if you just look at their behavior it would cause you to scratch your head. For all intents and purposes, let’s leave out the Amanda Bynes and Lindsay Lohan as they are addicts and have serious psychological problems that need to be dealt with wayyy before they can graduate to getting a spanking!
As for the others, the “tape” needs to be broken and yes, they could benefit from a serious spanking. Once you open the subconscious mind and you have them in a “state” that the behavior is stemming from, the “spanker” can literally “photoshop” a different way of being with some strategically placed verbal commands during a very serious and on point spanking. If you tell someone three truths and then implant a command, the subconscious mind absorbs the command as if it were the gospel, so to speak. The important thing to remember for the spanker is that the spanking must be given in a “superior” position and to me, the entire discipline session should flow like a ballet with the spankee and the spanker dancing between an “inferior” “superior” and yes, every once in a while an “equal” position.
Also, building and breaking rapport before, during and after a spanking is paramount. It is my personal belief and the belief of some very well respected scholars of psychology, that when you are in “rapport” with someone you are in a sublime state where someone hears you at an unconscious level. We do not always experience rapport with people. Case in point, Lindsay Lohan. From what I can discern, no one has been able to build a rapport with her, and then break it in order to change her behavior. Time will tell if her stint in rehab worked and if she found “that” person that has the knowledge of how to build and break rapport and dance the dance of “superior and inferior positions” with her. Hell, the judge couldn’t even command a superior position over her! One must be in rapport with the other person if you want to induce change however, rapport has to be broken when the change, or in this case, the spanking, is being delivered. And of course, getting back into rapport with the spankee once it is over is key.
In terms of society accepting non-consenting corporal punishment as behavior modification, I’m not sure that there are enough compassionate people out there to deliver such discipline without doing more damage to the emotional body nor do I think that a person right off the “vanilla” streets would allow this form of correction without some sort of trust, rapport, accountability etc. that they would have to have with their disciplinarian in order to even have their first spanking. Unfortunately, we live in a “right now” society and I’m sad to say that it is easier to toss someone in jail than work with them to break the tape that is constantly running in the background that is driving such behaviors.
Unlike Anthony Wiener, who clearly does not have a filter, just the “thought” of a discipline/punishment spanking causes ME to pause and consider if I should behave in a certain way or not. A good girl spanking, as a spanko, is totally different than having a disciplinarian that will hold you accountable for your choices via scolding, lecturing and a down right, no holes barred spanking. I can’t imagine that there is any “fun” to that kind of discipline but necessary all the same. You can’t imagine some of the things I wanted to say and do this week and didn’t because I will be held accountable to Dana for MY choices in a few weeks time.
The starlets that you mention Dana, are nowhere near giving up control because of the people that surround them and the money they make. But if I had to guess, the dark horse out of all of them is, believe it or not, is Lindsay Lohan. I bet the right person could be her disciplinarian and she would submit. Anthony Weiner is a narcissist and there is no cure for that. But spanking him for being one would suit me just fine. And the Biebs…he and his entire entourage need some time across your lap!
Although I often fantasize about these celebrities (and many others) getting a good “ass whuppin’,” I do not believe that it has any merit in reality in a non-consent way. Where corporal punishment is legally administered to adults as a penal measure – it appears that the punishment is to exact justice on behalf of the person(s) who have been offended by the behavior, as opposed to actually effecting a behavioral change within the wrong-doer.
In this kind of application, I imagine the consequence only breeds fear, resentment and a feeling of personal violation. The fear might deter an unwanted behavior but it will most likely a be short-lived reaction. Once the painful or aversive stimulus is no longer being inflicted upon us, we tend to “forget” about the consequences and are inclined to indulge our impulses. This is where the justice system in most countries largely fails and why so many people who are subjected to confinement as a consequence end up being repeat offenders. We punish, not rehabilitate. And while I would be the first to raise my hand to inject the needle into the person who commits heinous crimes against his fellow beings (or any members of the animal kingdom) –there are a great majority of offenders who I think could benefit from rehabilitative measures were they more readily in place to benefit from.
Yet it’s doubtful that spanking alone can remedy a misbehavior committed by someone who does not wish to have a spanking inflicted upon him/her. The resentment and feelings of being violated from such a procedure will only cause mental angst from the humiliation and pain, and most expectedly will end up in an explosion of bad behavior that will only need punishing again. This, obviously, will become cyclic. In my opinion, it can do more harm than good. There is a reason that we don’t exercise this kind of punishment on adults in our society.
There is a certain point in our lives that we are impressionable when we are young where spanking has the greatest likelihood to change our behavior. That’s another discussion, and likely a heated debate, but I think there comes a time when non-consensual spanking loses its value.
For adults, a spanking must have some level of consent to achieve results. I do not believe a spanking can force a person to take responsibility. I believe when a person is mentally and emotionally ready to admit they have made poor decisions and would like to be held accountable for them, that a discipline session can be immensely helpful – IF the person can reconcile that the punishment is deserved and in some ways, wanted. I’m confident that Lindsay and Amanda may one day reach that point in their lives as they mature and are able to reflect on the consequences of their actions. They might be candidates for “rehabilitative spanking.”
On the other hand, as much as I’d like to see someone smack the living crap out of Justin Bieber, I can’t imagine it would be anything but a waste of time. I could see Bieber laughing it off and bragging about it – no matter how painful and shaming it might be. I’m not sure he even knows what responsibility is. Right now the only reference point he has to responsibility is that it is just a thing that money can buy him out of. Taking away his resources as a punitive measure would be the best way to teach him about accountability. Once he has been deprived his financial umbrella to protect him, which will knock his fame down a few pegs, he might be vulnerable and impressionable enough to benefit from a spanking.
Vulnerability plays an impressive role in accountability, at least I believe so. With spanking applied for actual behavioral change, I’m convinced there has to be a certain amount of regression involved, and a very strong illusion of non-consent. For me, I BEST respond to spanking and other forms of punishment when I feel like I have no choice and when I’m pushed into a mindset where I feel young and vulnerable. It’s the emotional defenselessness that makes a spanking effective, even if that spanking consists of just a pop or two on a clothed bottom. Sometimes lessons applied in that manner can be more effective than a formal pants-down, 100-stroke implement spanking.
HOWEVER, I would respond to NOTHING if I wasn’t involved with a person I had a rapport with – one who cares about me, who is intelligent, who is attractive and who is skilled enough to bring me to that point of regression and vulnerability without harming me. If Dana was not my personal Top and I had to, for some reason, be accountable to someone who was appointed by some court of behavioral law to spank me – he or she could spank me until I lost every layer of flesh from my butt, and I would express no interest in changing my behavior. And if I ever felt someone was imposing on me discipline before they were able to gain from me that one iota of initial consent that gives them most of the power to make the disciplinary decisions of their own accord on my behalf – I would probably actually go BATSHIT CRAZY.
Us Spankos know the tremendous amount of trust that goes into giving control of your body and psyche to another human being and the immense feeling of pride and empowerment that follows. That’s why the experience is not 100 percent aversive. Were it 100 percent aversive, we would not be here in the first place. Were it 100 percent aversive, we would in some way leave damaged as opposed to healed. But when spanking is applied with our consent (and consent does not mean we control the details of the punishment) – there is a therapeutic element to it that allows us to internalize the experience and benefit from it rather than build up a dangerous form of resentment towards the person disciplining us or ourselves. This is also why it’s difficult to imagine it could realistically work to spank adults (celebrities or not) who are unwilling to engage the process with the person disciplining them.
Punishment is a tricky process and the reason why it fails most of the time is because the majority of people with the power to inflict it lack the interest to understand how to properly administer it, and this leads to inevitable abuse. When authority figures administer punishment without taking the care to understand its application, all they are doing is satisfying their own urges to cause another human being pain because they are angry/frustrated/annoyed or because it is their occupation to exact some form of justice for the benefit of society. There is no process.
And when I say process, I mean PROCESS. I’m pretty sure any one reading this right now would readily admit one spanking is not enough to “fix” an ingrained behavior within ourselves. We should not expect this to be the case for any other troubled human being, celebrities included.
It takes repeated applications, much support and understanding, a person in some way learned in the procedures of applied behavioral analysis, a strong emotional connection to another human being, and most importantly – a willingness within oneself to gradually allow our behavior to be broken and re-molded into something more desirable – before we can see any true success.
(Enjoyed the topic and all of the responses. Particularly awesome analysis, SGE – and I TOTALLY agree Bieber’s ENTIRE entourage should be included in this scenario… also, I kind of think his mom should be penciled in as well for negating his unacceptable behavior by the “good” things he does on occassion).
I’m really steamed, guys. I wrote this whole long damn blog post a week or so ago, lined it up for posting, and left it…
For some reason the post cut off halfway through, and of course I’ve no idea where the hell it’s gone. Lost to the interweb, I’m afraid.
Suffice it to say that I think MANY of the unspanked masses could use with a little discipline (or at the very least, SELF-discipline).
Angsty over lost thoughts,
Dana
I have read pages on the web discussing the subject of actual disciplinary/judicial canings . . . in one, there were comments that the only thing some feared was a caning . . . in another, also at corpun, there is a fellow who decided to tell the truth much more as a result of a school caning. I think that caning should be used in many instances, esp when it seems that incarceration is not going to be meaningful or productive.
There are many misdemeanor offenses for which incarceration seems excessive: shoplifting . . . indecent exposure . . . “sexual assault” such as groping in an elevator or bus . . . etc.
It would seem good to me to see many such offenses punished with a caning, not quite as scarring as the usual Singaporean caning. In Singapore, they intend to break the skin, draw blood and perhaps scar, so as to cause as much pain as possible in 4-12 strokes . . . why not the usual 60 minutes of US caning which usually leaves no scarring at all, but a lot of screaming and maybe tears?
There are also the reports out of the place in Siberia which has found caning to be useful in treating addiction to drugs and alcohol. At first, when I read the news article, I assumed it was a hoax . . . but it now seems not to be.
>Is it possible to spank sense into someone who’s behaving this >way?
It seems it should be tried.
>(Not if she’s suffering from an actual chemical imbalance, but >if this is behavioral dysfunction.)
Where do you draw the line between a chem imbalance and addiction to drugs and alcohol? For it seems that caning is proving helpful for many who are addicted.
http://www.whatsontianjin.com/news-5785-in-siberia-caning-is-said-to-help-people-kick-addiction.html
And how about San Diego mayor Bob Filner, Perhaps he’s on his way to Las Vegas for two weeks of intensive therapy for his sexual harassment activities.
zaitzeff, can you tell me what ‘the usual 60 minutes of US caning’ is? Sounds interesting!
sanne